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Young Lawyers Crusade Against Going to Law School
What's the best way to avoid dissatisfaction as a lawyer? Don't go to law school to begin with. That's the advice of Kirsten Wolf and David Wold, two new lawyers whose respective crusades against legal education are making their rounds in the blogosphere.
Yesterday, the WSJ Law Blog interviewed Kirsten Wolf, a 32 year old Boston University Law School grad who is on a one-woman crusade to spare others from making the mistake of going to law school, as she did. (H/T to ABA Journal). In her interview, Wolf explains that following several mundane, dead-end jobs, she decided to attend law school, which she believed would satisfy her intellect and also ensure her of future job security. After graduating with a B+ average (middle of the class) from BU Law School, Wolf couldn't find a job, despite the fact that BU's promotional materials represented the average starting salary of graduates as $85,000/year. Eventually, Wolf moved to New York and found a position in the publishing industry which she enjoys, but for the financial reality that she will likely be repaying her $87,000 in student loan debt through retirement.
Wolf enjoys her job and believes that her law degree has value, but not for the price that she's paid. As a warning to other students, Wolf says:
People say a law degree will always be worth something even if you don’t practice. But they don’t consider what that debt is going to look like after law school. It affects my life in every way. And the jobs that you think are going to be there won’t necessarily be there at all. Most people I know that are practicing attorneys don’t make the kind of money they think lawyers make. They’re making $40,000 a year, not $160,000. Plus, you’re going to be struggling to do something you might not even enjoy. A few people have a calling to be a lawyer, but most don’t.
Kirsten Wolf isn't the only law grad who feels this way. Last week,
Susan Cartier Liebel posted about David Wold, an angry lawyer who decided to auction his diploma on eBay, hoping to recoup his useless investment. In his ad, Wold wrote:
Why am I selling this great item? Because it has been nothing but a curse and aggravation in my life. Going to school for this degree has been a joke, and has only brought me stress and misery. This degree has been a great invitation to work at least 60 hours a week at a place where I don't want to be for people that I don't care about. It has helped me develop great relationships with bill collectors as I can't afford the cost this great privilege has afforded me. It has limited my ability to pursue other work options as people just can't understand why someone with a law degree wouldn't want to be a lawyer.
Cartier Liebel empathizes to some extent, believing that Wold "has been sold a bill of goods about job prospects and not been provided reasonable alternatives during the course of his education which included entrepreneurship with his degree. He came to believe, as many, that going to law school is a ticket to making money and that jobs abound." Scott Greenfield shares some insight about his decision to start his own firm, and cautions students to think twice before going to law school.
Surprisingly, I haven't seen much discussion about this topic in the academic blogosphere. Surely, most law professors (who generally have top credentials that would qualify them for jobs at large firms) must realize that the job prospects for lower performing students are dim. Yet, I've not seen any law professors offer advice on whether to attend law school.
While I admire Wold's and Wolf's efforts to spread the truth about the true cost of a law degree and the realities of job prospects in the legal profession, I'm not sure that their advice will make much difference. Ultimately, every person believes that he or she is a unique exception to conventional wisdom. And despite grim predictions, many do go on to law school, either with high hopes of graduating at the top of the class, or that somehow, based on their determination and work ethic, they'll find a job where many others of comparable credentials failed. For those intent on deluding themselves about post-law school realities, all the education in the world won't change their minds.
Readers, what's your view? Would you advise graduates to go on to law school if they're not 100 percent sure that they want to be lawyers? And if you could do it all over again, would you have gone to law school yourself?
Posted by Carolyn Elefant on January 17, 2008 at 12:29 PM | Permalink
| Comments (9)
Comments
With the "wisdom" of having been licensed for 31 years - and remembering the job search disappointments I experienced back then after graduating with honors from a then-third-tier law school - my advice to those currently pondering whether to go for the law degree is - FORGET IT! Do not incur a $75,000 to $125,000 debt that you will never pay off in your working life. Even if you get accepted at a first-tier law school, the opportunities are not there unless you will be among that handful who are top 5% in your class, Law Review and/or Order of the Coif. Even if you make partner, you will never be relieved of the demand to crank out more and more billable hours and engage in never-ending business development. Instead of law school, DO SOMETHING YOU ENJOY. Without the massive debt pulling you down, long-term you'll probably end up making as much if not more income than most private practitioners, you won't be dealing with the anal personalities that the legal profession abounds in, and you'll be able to enjoy your life.
Posted by: Wolfgang | Jan 17, 2008 2:26:35 PM
Not everyone is lucky enough to know what they want to do 100% in this world and most of my life anyway has been by trial and error - although when I thought I knew what I wanted to do and did it regardless of all the probabilities against my success I discovered several things:
The statistics are correct; and so is the assumption that you can be the exception. The difference is how you play the cards that life deals you moving through that scenario and whether you are happy pursuing it regardless if the success comes overnight or not at all.
That is the real question people should ask themselves before committing to something like a secondary degree.
I no longer do what my degree was made for and am very happy 'not' doing it. But there was a time I was completely satisfied struggling towards the goal of success in an acting career. I realize now that better schools with locations placed near the industry one wishes to work are best suited for these million to one career choices. And nepatism plays a part in every career. But if you are not happy struggling, you won't be happy succeeding either - so find something you really love to do or be happy doing something you can stand and spend all of your 'free' time doing what you love.
If you equate your success in life to cost of education and respective salary - you are probably always going to be bitter.
My advice - marry someone in Europe and go to school for free then be happy with mediocrity and live a jovial life. The whole thing is a crap shoot - deal with it. Even people who have a very high level of success - probably suffered tremendously for it and we don't see that when we measure ourselve's against them. I'm glad I finished my bachelors and still haven't decided on a masters study game plan. Other people's bad experiences with Law School, however would not deter me if that is what I would choose for myself. Hopefully others would feel the same way or they wouldn't consider going in the first place.
Posted by: Bonnie Cardell | Jan 17, 2008 2:31:34 PM
The honest answer to your question is, it depends. To me it really depends on the reason the person wants to go to law school. If a person says to me that they want to go to law school so they can get rich, I would probably advise them against a legal education.
If however, the person is genuinely interested in the law there is no reason to forego the profession or the law school experience because there is a possibility that he/she will not earn a six figure salary. What's more, advising a person not to go to law school because there is risk involved would be like saying going to college is a waste of time because plenty of people get undergraduate degrees and still can't find jobs.
Life is full of uncertainty and at some point we all make choices that do not turn out the way we planned. What matters is that we learn and grow from the experiences.
Posted by: Kira Fonteneau | Jan 17, 2008 2:57:40 PM
Law school, especially, 1L, is an indoctrination course, into a criminal cult enterprise. This takes place without the informed consent, nor even the knowledge of the student.
People who have endured this trauma may judge for themselves by reviewing the elements of indoctrination, and matching their personal experience to the proper column in the link on cults.
http://supremacyclaus.blogspot.com/2007/08/lawyer-education-as-cult-indoctrination.html
If this point can be proven in court, all law school victims may be owed money damages.
Posted by: Supremacy Claus | Jan 17, 2008 5:31:25 PM
I don't think the problem is law school or people going to law school who aren't sure-its the crippling debt that law school means for most graduates. Having $100K plus in student loans upon graduation severely impacts career choice and flexibility. It creates a situation where you really can't afford to go to law school unless you're sure you want to be in a law related field. That's where the resentment and anger comes from-the feeling of being stuck with massive debt and very little choice of career path.
Posted by: Dawn | Jan 18, 2008 6:09:29 AM
Forget the debt, its the baggage of the law degree that will make you wish you never mentioned it. You are generally presumed to be a money grubber who takes advantage of the less educated, whenever you engage in business. You never get the benefit of the doubt when you err, as all who deal with you presume you know the rules. The ambulance chasing shark that evolved from the legal profession of the 70-80's is repugnant to me. Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be lawyers.
Posted by: Jack | Jan 18, 2008 7:21:06 AM
...and you won't see law professors in the blogosphere lining up to give the truth about the scam being perpetrated by these money making machines.
Law professors make more then nearly all their university colleagues in different fields, and have the least amount of education (Doctorate instead of PhDs) a lame clerkship and little or no practice experience.
Law schools have sprung up all over the place to get a piece of the 40k tuition, no value for the students, pie. They are unchecked by organization, and the ABA has no teeth.
The sadest element of this scam is the deceptive recruiting tactics (like inaccurate employement figures) used to lure in and ravage poor unsuspecting 20 somethings!
Posted by: Sub-prime Education | Jan 18, 2008 2:53:28 PM
Where's the charm of litigation, argumentation, the satisfaction in proving you're point(s), or learning from defeats has gone.
If you have the real desire and fire, certainly, there exist ways to acheive your goals and vision.
It has been a prudent advice that a student must give due diligence before opting for a profession course. Sure, if you don't have any interest for Law don't pursue, I understand it can be alluring. But still, I believe law is something which develops deep interest if spent some time with.
In every profession there are professionals who are doing extremely well and few who are doing not that well. Thats something which must be give factual importance.
The serious point raised again & again; and prevails is the extortionate fees of Law Colleges, something needs to be done for it.
What about developing a dynamic Solo/Law firm Practice with revolutionary Rates(relief to citizens from ever growing legal fees)and still keeping your substantial profits.
Any thoughts...
Posted by: | Jan 23, 2008 9:32:51 PM
I have 130k in law school debt. I graduated 4 years ago and make 61k a year. I finished in the top 1/3 of a good and yet 4 years into my career I make less than my friend who has been teaching for 5 years and run the after school activity program. Law school is without a doubt the worst decision of my life. In preparation for law school I looked at starting salaries and saw that sarting pay from my school was around 88k at the time I went to school. Of course, what they donn't tell is that sure there are new lawyers making 130-140k at big firms, but those numbers sckew the average pay. Nearly everyone I know who is not a a big firm, which is most of my classmates, makes 50-70k. 50-75k sounds like a decent living, not when you owe 130k in loans. The problem is that non-big firm employers, which is 95% of all law jobs, are run by lawyers who finshed school 30 years and have no idea what law school costs. I would never suggest to anyone that they go to law school.
Posted by: jason | Feb 21, 2008 11:19:14 AM
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